Present: Comrades Molotov, Malenkov, Beria, Mikoyan, Bulganin, Vishinskiy.
[Li Fuchun, Zhang Ventyan, Su Yu, Shi Zhe]

 Stalin, starting a conversation with a question about the Mexican proposal on the exchange of prisoners of war, says that they agree with Mao Zedong that the proposal of the Mexicans is unacceptable, as it reflects the U.S. position in the negotiations in Korea. If the Mexicans deliver their proposal to the United Nations, the Soviet delegation will reject the proposal as it is not in the interest of ending the war in Korea, and will pursue the following:

"1. Immediate cessation of military actions of the parties on land, at sea and in the air.

2. Return of all prisoners of war to their homelands according to international standards.

3. Withdrawal of foreign troops from Korea, including the volunteer Chinese parts, in 2-3 months and  peaceful settlement of the Korean question in the spirit of the unification of Korea, conducted by the Koreans under the supervision of the Commission with the participation of the parties directly concerned and other states, including states that did not participate in the Korean War. "

Com. Stalin adds that the question of what and how many states will have to take part in this commission will be further discussed and resolved.

As for the proposal for temporary detention of 20% of the prisoners of war from both sides and the return of all the remaining prisoners of war, the Soviet delegation will not address that proposal, and it will remain with Mao Zedong in reserve.

Zhou Enlai asks about the Soviet opinion about the possibility of the Chinese government signing the nonaggression pact with India and Burma. Mao Zedong considered appropriate to conclude such a pact.

Stalin replies that they join the opinion of Comrade Mao Zedong. Of course, there cannot be any obstacles and never will.

Zhou Enlai asks whether the nomination of the second position can be delayed, say, for 2-3 weeks.

Stalin replies that this matter is of Mao Zedong. If Mao Zedong wants, then we can submit the discussion of the second position on the percentage of detention to the Assembly.

Zhou Enlai raises the question on the third position - on the possibility of transferring the POWs to neutral countries, so that the question of their further  fate could be settled separately. He says that it is under discussion in the international sphere, and asks if Com. Stalin considers supporting this position.

Stalin replies that they want to return all the POWs. This point of view corresponds to the Chinese position as well. If no agreement is reached on this basis, the transfer of the prisoners of war to the UN will be impossible, as the United Nations is a belligerent party and asks which country the prisoners of war will be sent according to the Chinese comrades.

Zhou Enlai responses: Mao Zedong instructed to say here that India is in his mind.

Stalin asks at whose expense the POWs will be subsisted in this case. Perhaps, at the expense of each of the respective parties?

Zhou Enlai replies that it is understood that if the prisoners are transferred to India, it means that after some time they will be transferred to China via India, while the Chinese and the Korean side will pay the subsistence of the Chinese and the Korean prisoners of war.

Stalin says that the proposal could be taken, but one must bear in mind that the Americans do not want to transfer all the prisoners of war, they will leave a certain number of them, intending to recruit them. It happened this way also with their prisoners of war, and now every day they catch several POWs whom the Americans move to their side. The Americans detain the prisoners of war not because they supposedly do not want to return – the Americans often refer to this motive – but to use them for espionage.

Zhou Enlai confirms that that is the case.

He also raises the question on the following positions: to cease fire and later to discuss the issue of prisoners of war in general. He reminds that Stalin agreed with this position, if the proposal on the percentage of detention had not been accepted.

Stalin  confirms that that proposal can be considered one of the possible positions, but the Americans will hardly go for it.

Zhou Enlai says that  the Americans might put forward it to the Assembly.

Stalin. That would be good.

Zhou Enlai says that during the previous conversation, Stalin made the remark that China should have shown the initiative in establishing a continental or regional UNO. He asks whether there could be any more guidance on this matter.

Stalin replies that he remains at the same point of view. He says it should be added that besides the existing UN it is necessary to establish an association separately for Asia, separately  for Europe, etc. not to replace the UN, but in parallel with the UN. Let the Americans establish an American organization, the Europeans – their European, the Asians – their Asian, but in parallel with the UN, and not against the UN.

Zhou Enlai says that China has no interest in the UN and it is clear that the Chinese need to be proactive in establishing a continental organization.

Stalin stresses that the UN - is the American organization and that this UN is needed to be destroyed, but retaining the view that we are not against the UN. We should conduct it under the guise of respect for the UN, but not to say that we must destroy, that it is necessary to weaken the organization, however in fact to weaken the organization.

He reminds that during the war Churchill suggested establishing the continental United Nations, but met resistance from the Americans. The Soviets kept quiet, listening to the dispute, but then the British abandoned their positions, and the Soviets supported the establishment of the United Nations.

Zhou Enlai asks whether a letter of Stalin to Mao Zedong can be sent  on this occasion.

Stalin explains that it is better to do without any letter, that he sees Zhou Enlai recording the talk, and he fully trusts him.

Zhou Enlai touched upon the World Congress for Peace in Beijing, scheduled for the end of September, saying that the Congress would   have to be moved to the beginning of October. And he adds that China is struggling for the participation  of Japan and India in this Congress.

Stalin asks if Pakistan takes part.

Zhou Enlai confirms that Pakistan should also participate and that the Pakistanis are invited, but the Pakistani government does not issue passports. As for India, the Indian delegation has already partially left (for the Congress – edits by the translator), and the Japanese will come via Hong Kong.

Stalin further states that now it will be necessary to pursue a line of the fact that the first role belonged to the PRC because:

The initiative to convene the Congress belongs to China;

That will be better, because the USSR is only partially included in Asia, but the whole China is in Asia, thus the first role must belong to China.

Zhou Enlai asks what specific issues will be dealt by the Soviet delegation.

Stalin replies: peace.

Zhou Enlai, says about Nehru’s proposal to convene a conference of the five countries - the Soviet Union, China, Britain, France and the United States.

Molotov explained that it was the proposal of the Committee of the Indian National Congress.

Stalin says that the proposal should be supported

Zhou Enlai stresses that at such a conference India will certainly act together with England, but the use of this offer would appear to be appropriate.

Stalin agrees.

Zhou Enlai says that in connection with the publication of the notes on Port Arthur the position that China should take on Japan is quite clear. China must show that Japan does not want to sign a peace treaty with China and the Soviet Union.

Stalin adds - and is preparing for an invasion. He emphasizes that the Soviet position is not directed against the Japanese people.

Zhou Enlai raises the question of Formosa. He says that since the Japanese government signed an agreement with Chiang Kai-shek, it thereby confirmed that it ignores the interests of the Chinese people. This fact eliminates the possibility of a peace treaty. As long as there is a peace agreement with Formosa, the peace treaty between China and Japan is impossible.

Stalin stresses that the note about Port Arthur is directed against America, but not against the Japanese people. America holds a fleet in Taiwan and exploits Taiwan. Stalin supports the correct point of view of Zhou Enlai on the impossibility of a peace treaty between China and Japan, while Japan keeps a peace treaty with Chiang Kai-shek, and Stalin indicates that the signing of the treaty with Chiang Kaishek only worsens the position of Japan.

Zhou Enlai asks what further developments regarding Germany will happen.

Stalin says that it is difficult to predict. Apparently, the Americans will not allow the unification of Germany. They plundered Germany. If the western and eastern Germans unite, it will be impossible to rob Germany anymore. So, the  Americans do not want the unification of Germany.

Zhou Enlai expresses the opinion that, although the Americans  restore the armed forces of West Germany and Japan, hoping to use them, these weapons may turn against them.

Stalin says that it is quite possible, even if Germany is headed by the nationalists, Nazis

Zhou Enlai moves to the situation in Xinjiang. He says that the work in Xinjiang is generally well conducted and that agrarian reforms are implemented in Xinjiang. At the same time, however, there are also leftist excesses, which found expression in the illegal confiscation of livestock, in the matters of religion and reduction of loan interest and rent for the land. In order to eliminate these excesses the plenum of the Central Committee was called, which freed Wang Zheng from the duties of the secretary of the Xinjiang political bureau of the Central Committee of the CPC and sent a number of Central Committee members to the area to eliminate the excesses. In general, the discontent that took place here has been liquidated, the cases of transition (the border – edit by the translator), including the territory of the USSR, have been stopped.

Stalin said that the excesses were the result of the desire to get faster the land and livestock, confiscated both from the rich.

Zhou Enlai observes that as soon as the rumor about the reform was spread,  the hostile elements began to kill the cattle.

Stalin observes that similar facts took place at the relevant time in the Soviet practice as well. It is necessary to hurry up with the reform. If the agrarian reform is not conducted, such looting will continue.

Zhou Enlai explains that the agrarian reform is carried out in the agricultural areas, and the distribution and excesses associated with it are in quite different pastoral areas. Since shepherds participated in the distribution, the Chinese leadership took a  decision to improve the situation of shepherds, which should improve the overall situation.

Stalin says that the Chinese, certainly, know better.

Zhou Enlai says that according to Liu Shaoqi, two representatives of the Indonesian Communist Party must arrive at the XIX Congress, and asks if it is timely to discuss party questions with them in Moscow.

Stalin says that presently it is difficult to say. It depends on whether they address to the Central Committee. He indicates that, when the representatives of the Indian Communist Party arrived, they asked for assistance in determining the program of the party, and the Soviets had to help them, despite being busy.

Zhou Enlai reports that the Japanese comrades are also due to come and they  might also want to talk about the party affairs.

Stalin replies that older brothers can not refuse younger brothers in this matter. He says that this matter should be talked to Liu Shaoqi - he has great experience, and to find out how the Chinese comrades look at it.

Zhou Enlai stresses that Liu Shaoqi has in mind to take a relevant material to discuss a range of issues.

Stalin remarks that if the Chinese comrades want to discuss these issues, of course, from the Soviet side there will be no objection, and if you do not want, then we will not have to talk.

Zhou Enlai says that the Chinese comrades will definitely want to talk.

Stalin replies that  time will be found in this case.

Zhou Enlai says that it is also quite possible for the comrades from Vietnam to come.

Stalin remarks in this connection that the Vietnamese comrades are Soviet friends and they will be our guests.

Zhou Enlai, ending the conversation, says that those are all the issues on which they wanted to get instructions.

Stalin asks – instructions or advice?

Zhou Enlai replies that in terms of Stalin it can be an advice, but in their view it will be instructions.

Stalin notices that the Soviets only give advice, expound Soviet views, and the Chinese comrades can accept it or not, however, instructions carry a binding character.

Zhou Enlai reiterates that from the standpoint of the Chinese, these are - instructions and moreover - extremely valuable instructions. He notes that they do not blindly accept these instructions, and feel the need to understand and accept these instructions consciously.

Stalin emphasizes that China is little known to the Soviets, thus we are beware to give instructions.

Zhou Enlai says that they proceed from the fact that Comrade Stalin, of course, perfectly knows the issues to which they refer, and asks again, if there are any instructions.

Stalin replies that his advice is the following: it is necessary to remember that the British and the Americans will try to introduce their people, their agents into the Chinese state apparatus. There is no difference if they are the Americans or French. They will conduct subversive work, try to destroy from within, can even go to the crime of poisoning. Thus we need vigilance. Stalin says that this fact must be borne in mind. Here are all the instructions.

Zhou Enlai says that it is very valuable guidance. He agrees that not only the Americans, the British and the French can go for meanness, but they are pushing the Chinese for such meanness as well

Stalin adds – their own agents of the national bourgeoisie.

Molotov, returning to the issue of the military credit, payments for the cost of weapons for 60 Chinese divisions, asks whether he correctly understood Zhou Enlai last time that the cost of supplies for 60 divisions was not a military loan provided by the Soviet government to China under the agreement dated 1 February 1951. Arms shipments to 60 Chinese infantry divisions will be paid out on the full value of the loan in the order provided by a special agreement between China and the Soviet Union.

Zhou Enlai replies that Comrade Molotov understood him correctly, and reaffirms that the calculations relating to the arming of 60 Chinese divisions, should be made with the payment of the full cost, rather than at half rate as it is established not for China.

Stalin says that in that case a special agreement has to be signed.

He touches upon the question about the gifts of the Chinese government to the representatives of the Soviet Union and  indicates that there are a lot of gifts

Zhou Enlai explains that in due time they were not able to present gifts to Comrade Stalin in connection with the 70th anniversary. They were in the museum of gifts, saw the gifts sent from other countries, and decided that they could not fail to make up for the fact what they could not do in due time.

Stalin says that the Soviets would like to give the delegation of the Chinese government  the  Soviet-made cars. He says that there are the "ZIM" cars which are smaller than the "ZIS" cars, but very interesting, and we would like to give these " ZIMs."

Then he turns to the question of the attitude to Soong Ching Ling.

Zhou Enlai says that he works on bringing her closer to him, she gradually turns from the bourgeois ideology to their camp, speaks well in her articles based on their ideology. He says, Soong Ching Ling is very proud that she is the winner of the International Stalin Peace Prize.

Talks started at 10.30 ended at 12.30.

Recorded by: A. Vyshinskii, Fedorenko.

Russian-Chinese relations in the XX century. Documents and materials. Volume V.  Soviet-Chinese relations in 1946 - February 1950. Book 2: 1949 - February 1950. Pp. 330-335. АП РФ. Ф. 45. Оп. 1. Д. 329. Л. 90–101.

Translation from Russian into English
By Dr. Elena Lavrina

Click here to return to the October 2024 index.